Stalemate

It seems as though the Republican party's best plan for beating Donald Trump now is to play him to a stalemate.  Cruz can win some more states, maybe Kasich wins Ohio, maybe Rubio wins Florida, then nobody gets a majority of delegates and they pick someone better at the convention.  I'm not so sure about this plan.  Who do you pick?  Getting Cruz over Trump isn't nearly worth all this trouble.  Kasich or Rubio?  Are we sure Republican voters are ready to support a candidate who won two states, or one?  Who else?  Romney?  Paul Ryan?  Maybe just go get Jeb?  A plan to get rid of Trump before it's too late is all well and good, but they need a viable plan B and I'm not sure they have one.

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders has really grown on me in the last few months, but I'm growing increasingly frustrated with his campaign.  The Sanders campaign raised almost 43 million dollars in February, but still decided not to contest half of the super Tuesday states.  Why?  People on TV keep asking why Bernie can't win any black votes.  Well, one of the reasons appears to be that he isn't trying very hard.  I like Bernie, but I'm starting to wonder if the people running his campaign do.

Tonight's debate is in Flint, Michigan.  I'm a little suspicious about the make-up of CNN's audience tonight.  I suspect not too many of them are actually from Flint because I feel like people who have been getting poisoned for two years don't do a lot of clapping and hooting.  But hey, Wolfie says CNN handed out some bottled water this weekend so we're cool, right?  Anyway, did you guys hear what Trump said yesterday?  What a dick!

7:58PM: Another national anthem before a debate.  Then Anderson Cooper referred to himself as "moderators".  Great start for CNN.

8:00PM: Anderson started off by running earnestly through the whole story about how the Michigan state government allowed an entire city to be poisoned by drinking water to save money.  Hillary added, "Ummm, hey Coop, I do the disingenuous grandstanding around here, OK?"

8:02PM: Bernie thinks poisoning people shouldn't be what this country is about.  I feel like we'll be making a lot of painfully obvious points tonight.

8:03PM: Hillary adds that the state and federal government should be sending some money so that the water can be not poisonous in the future.  Also a solid idea.  Hey, do either of you know any of those Senate folks, or that Obama fellow?  I bet they could help with that.

8:05PM: A lady from Flint said she's not sure if she'll ever trust the water again.  That's such a good point.  I don't know that this is necessarily fixable.  If I lived in Flint, you couldn't pay me enough to drink the tap water ever again no matter how many government jackasses told me it was safe.

8:08PM: Bernie says people shouldn't have to pay a water bill for poisoned water.  Wait, is that currently happening?  What the fuck is wrong with Michigan?

8:10PM: We're getting to Bernie's part of this debate.  For those of you who haven't met Bernie, he's not a big fan of corporations.  You know who else doesn't like corporations?  People in Flint, because corporations blew out of town and turned Flint into a goddamn nightmare.

8:12PM: Coop asked Hillary if she would fire the head of the EPA.  Her answer seemed to be that she doesn't know how high the problem went in the EPA.  The correct answer to that question, at least while you're standing in Flint, is "yes Coop, I would definitely fire that dude".  Bernie kind of balked at firing the head of the EPA too, but he did a better job of it.

8:16PM: Hillary committed to replacing all lead water pipes as President, but also talked about how some houses have lead paint and she's going to get rid of that too.  If you vote for Hillary, she will personally re-paint your house.

8:18PM: Some guy asked Hillary why the people of Flint should believe that she's not just using Flint to score political points, since she never really talked about Flint before.  Her basic answer was "listen, the political points were so easy here.  Your Governor is a moron".

8:20PM: Same question to Bernie.  He didn't do much better.  Yes, you're being used to score political points.  If you don't like it, why did you show up tonight?

8:23PM: Hillary just did a minute on not letting corporations export jobs.  Bernie immediately responded by hammering her on NAFTA.

8:26PM: Hillary said Bernie was against the auto bailout and Bernie made a face that defied description.  Then Bernie said Hillary was all for bailing out her friends on Wall St.  Apparently both bailouts were in the same bill so I guess everyone's an asshole.

8:31PM: Bernie says he's not shy about being a one-issue candidate because his one issue is re-building the middle class.

8:32PM: Bernie doesn't really know what we're talking about anymore so he's going to talk about super pacs and why Hillary won't release the transcripts of her speeches to Wall St.  She keeps saying she'll do that when the Republicans do, which is a nonsense answer but she's sticking with it.

8:33PM: Hillary said Barack Obama took more money from Wall St. than any other person ever and then he stood up to Wall St. when the time came.  Wait, weren't we just talking, like five minutes ago, about that time Barack Obama gave Wall St. 700 billion dollars in unmarked bills with no oversight?

8:37PM: Bernie's not calling Hillary stupid, he's calling her trade policies stupid.

8:38PM: They're talking about the export-import bank now.  Coop wisely explained what that is before he asked Bernie why he opposes it.  Bernie said 75% of the money from the export-import bank goes to big businesses like Boeing.  Coop pointed out that no other Democrats agree with Bernie, but Ted Cruz does.  Ouch Coop.

8:39PM: Bernie said Democrats aren't always right.  Hillary made the DOES NOT COMPUTE face.

8:42PM: Basically, Bernie is saying the export-import bank mostly supports big business and Hillary's counterpoint is that it supports small businesses too.  As far as I can tell they're both basically right.  Democrat debates are boring.  Don't you guys want to order the military to commit war crimes or build a giant pointless wall?  Come on!

8:49PM: Big applause for the girl who got shot a couple of weeks ago by an uber driver but didn't die.  We really have big dreams in this country.  Hey everyone, maybe some of the children who get shot for no good reason in our country will just be horribly injured but not die!!!  USA! USA!

8:51PM: The girl's dad asked Hillary what she'll do about mass shootings and said he didn't want to hear about background checks and mental health.  Hillary immediately pivoted to that time Bernie voted to give gun manufacturers immunity.

8:53PM: Bernie says nobody has a magic solution to gun violence.  Why is that always the answer?  "Guns?  Hey man, I don't know magic".  Bernie is standing by his view that gun manufacturers should have immunity.  It's such a weird position.  Hillary, correctly, pointed out that manufacturers could make guns safer but they aren't doing it, so they are partially responsible.

8:59PM: Bernie is completely unraveling on guns and Hillary is absolutely destroying him.  She even went into how he talks about corporate greed all the time but he's protecting the corporate greed of gun manufacturers.  Bernie just keeps asking if he understands the question correctly and saying that Hillary wants to end gun manufacturing in America.

9:02PM: We've moved on to mass incarceration.  Lemon brought up the 1994 crime bill and asked Hillary why black people should trust her to get it right this time.  Hillary said Bernie voted for that bill and Don should ask him about it.

9:05PM: Lemon took Hillary's advice and asked Bernie about it.  Bernie said there was good stuff in the bill too (which is true).

9;06PM: A guy in the audience asked Bernie what experiences he's had which have allowed him to understand other cultures.  He talked a lot about his civil rights record, which sounds good.  Bernie did a solid job, but I feel like the right answer would have been an acknowledgement that Bernie has no idea what it's like to be black in America.

9:09PM: Lemon asked Hillary what racial blind spots she has and she chose to answer the question that the guy asked Bernie because Don's question was really hard.  Lemon, in a stunning display of doing his job, pushed back at her and asked the question again.  It was glorious!  Then, Hillary kind of gave the "I honestly don't know what it's like to be black" answer.  Don Lemon did journalism and then Hillary Clinton gave what sounded like a genuinely honest answer to a question.  I need a minute.

9:12PM: Bernie told a story about how a black friend of his couldn't get a cab in DC 20 years ago and then eventually came around to saying he doesn't really know what it's like to be black in America either.  Bernie's still rattled by the gun debate.  I'm surprised he hasn't left yet.

9:15PM: Remember that time Hillary Clinton used the phrase "super predators" in 1996?  Don Lemon does.  Don wants to know if it was racial code.  Hillary says she was talking about drug cartels.  OK.

9:17PM: Bernie just asked Hillary if she was just talking about some welfare bill from the 90s.  She said she wasn't and Bernie was like "OK, I"m going to talk about it anyway".  Hillary said they created 23 millions jobs in the 90s and Bernie was like "yeah, but what about NAFTA and Wall St.?"  I'm souring on Bernie again.  I feel like it's a bad sign for Bernie that every time I start to think I kind of like him I watch a debate and actually listen to him for two hours and then I kind of stop liking him.

9:24PM: Coop says the schools in Flint are failing and running out of money.  How about instead of spending money to fix the water we just build these people a new city because this sounds like a mess?  Seriously, there's lots of empty land between cities in the midwest.  We could put New Flint anywhere they want.

9:28PM: Bernie's going to tax the wealthy to fix schools.  I know Democrats don't like to hear this, but if you look at education budgets in cities, funding doesn't really look like the problem.  Schools need better leadership and better ideas more than they need more money.

9:30PM: Coop got booed for pointing out that teachers unions are the fucking worst.  When asked if she thinks unions protect bad teachers, Hillary said she wants to look at that, and then said she understands that's a common criticism and that we need to eliminate that criticism.  Not fix that problem, eliminate that criticism.  Yup.

9:34PM: Hillary keeps saying she wants to go further.  Sometimes it's unclear what she wants to go further than, but further she will go.

9:35PM: Lemon wants to know how Bernie will fund his big infrastructure plans.  I bet he's going to talk about taxing millionaires and billionaires.  Rats!  He talked about taxing corporations.  I was so close.

9:36PM: A student from a local college is asking about fracking.  Coop says she's an undecided voter but she's a college student so she's voting for Bernie.

9:37PM: Hillary wasn't willing to take an anti-fracking position, but said she'd make it more difficult.  Bernie jumped in and said he's 100% against fracking and then started talking about climate change.  Coop asked Bernie if Democratic Governors who say fracking can be done safely are wrong and he very glibly said "Yes".  Bernie's got his legs back under him now.

9:41PM: Hillary always completely ignores Bernie's premise that it's hard to be tough on industries that give you a lot of money.  Coop pushed her on a specific fund raiser with a big domestic fracking company.  Hillary said there's nothing to be concerned about there and then went for the applause line about how this debate is better than Republican debates.

9:44PM: Bernie agreed about the Republicans, but then asked a good question that he's asked before.  Why would these big corporations keep giving money to all of the candidates who keep saying the money has no influence on them?  Do they just like giving away money?  Do they get a sense of pride every time they see a silly campaign add?

9:50PM: Hillary is building a broad coalition of people across the country.  People who have lost any desire to get excited about anything and are made of 100% pragmatism.

9:52PM: Bernie says he wins polls against Trump way more than Hillary does.  I know that's true, but it really doesn't seem sustainable.  I understand why Bernie makes establishment Democrats nervous.  He's a little uneven as a candidate.

9:53PM: Some lady just asked Bernie if he thinks god is relevant.  When did the Republican debate start?  We eventually got to how Bernie is very proud to be Jewish and then Bernie subtly compared Trump to Hitler.  For the record, he really is more of a Mussolini.

9:55PM: The same lady asked Hillary for whom she prays.  Seriously, what's happening right now?  Fifteen minutes ago we were talking about science and climate change and now we're talking about who we pray for.  Reign it in Coop!

9:58PM: I prayed for this debate to end and Coop mercifully answered my prayers.

Closing Statements

Bernie started out talking about how his dad came to this country with no money and then went on to talk about the wealthy and super pacs and political revolution.

Hillary did a thing about breaking down barriers.  If you can find a way to believe anything she says, it was pretty solid.

I'm Still Not Feeling the Bern

Last time I watched a Democratic debate two of the candidates dropped out of the race immediately after the debate.  Come to think of it, Jim Webb may have dropped out during the debate.  I've heard about debates happening since then, but the DNC did a pretty good job of keeping them secret.  I heard one of them was on the moon and you could only watch it with a telescope.  Hillary 2016!

Meanwhile, on the Republican side, they seem to be choosing between Cruz and Trump.  That's as bad as it could be.  If we elect one of them, it's not like he'll be President for a few weeks and we can all have a good laugh and move on.  We'd be stuck with him for four years.  We have nuclear weapons.  Lots of them.  It's a bad situation.

So, the Democrats really need to get their act together.  I still have concerns about Sanders in a general election, and the Clinton campaign is predictably collapsing.  I can't figure out what's wrong with the Clinton campaign except to say that they're just bad at being in a race.  Also, Martin O'Malley is a person who exists.  I thought O'Malley could at least get enough support to maybe drop out and make an impact with an endorsement.  Even that seems like a long shot now.  Things are bleak, is what I'm saying.

8:53PM: Tonight's debate is in South Carolina where Bernie Sanders is, let's be honest, just way too Jewish for those people.  Clinton leads by approximately 109 percent in South Carolina polls.  I assume Debbie Wasserman Schultz is spending these last few minutes offering Sanders increasing amounts of money to just go back to Vermont and eat some ice cream.

8:57PM: Sounds like Bernie has recently changed his position on guns, or at least some part of the gun debate.  That's fine.  I was never under the impression that any of these people could actually do something about guns if elected, I was more concerned about Bernie's position on guns being inconsistent with everything else he believes.  I still have that concern.

9:00PM: Tonight's debate is being moderated by Lester Holt and Andrea Mitchell.  Color me underwhelmed.  To be fair, I can't really think of anyone at NBC who I would trust to not be completely in the tank for Hillary.  I think they still feel bad about 2008.  Obama was just so cool though.

9:02PM: Apparently we'll have questions from "the YouTube community" throughout the debate.  Oh goodie.  Glad to see NBC can't even come up with two hours of their own questions.

9:03PM: Hillary thinks Martin Luther King Jr. was pretty great.  Leave it to Hillary to take controversial positions.  She's a real maverick.

9:04PM: Bernie also thinks Dr. King was super.  African-American voters do not think Bernie is super.  I don't really understand that.  It can't just be that he's old and white.  Hillary is almost as old, and incredibly white.  Like, translucently white.

9:05PM: O'Malley is a fan of Dr. King too.  His actual name is Martin, so I guess he wins this round?

9:07PM: Bernie's top three priorities would be universal health care, $15/hr minimum wage and infrastructure spending to create jobs.  Hillary's are essentially the same, but she added equal pay for equal work.  Both of them want to bring the country together.

9:09PM: O'Malley fit like five things into his first priority.  He threw in support for unions and immigration reform.  Then he talked about climate change.  Marty's top three priorities are roughly 13 different things.  He said everything that a Democrat has even been for.

9:10PM: Bernie just called Clinton's attacks on him about guns disingenuous.  Clinton came back by reciting Bernie's record on gun votes.  He looks genuinely embarrassed, which again raises my concerns about his motivation on this issue.

9:14PM: Hey Marty, do you want to take everyone's guns?  O'Malley says he's never met a self-respecting deer hunter who needed an automatic weapon to down a deer.  Marty also says he agrees with Bernie and Hillary, they've both been inconsistent on guns.  Zing! You've just been O'Malleyed!

9:17PM: Hillary says we need to end the systemic racism in our criminal justice system.  She added "some of that shit was signed into law by my husband, but what can I say, I married a dumbass...you get it ladies".  OK I made that second part up.

9:19PM: Bernie is employing the Trump argument of quoting polls he's leading.  Sanders is confident that African-American voters will come around when they become familiar with his record.  That could be true. He is kind of running out of time though.

9:20PM: O'Malley was the only person to actually say "black lives matter".  I feel like that should count for something, but I have a sense that it won't.

9:21PM: Holt says we're going to hear from "some of the most prominent voices on YouTube".  Prominent voices on YouTube?  What?  I'm interested to see what cats would ask Presidential candidates.

9:23PM: Sanders just said "if a police officer breaks the law, like any other public official, they should be held accountable".  Is it just me, or did he subtly motion towards Hillary as he said "like any other public official"?  Maybe it's just me.

9:25PM: We've been talking about heroin I think.  I don't know, I got distracted by a fire truck outside my building.  Bernie said something about pharmaceutical companies taking some responsibility for the drugs they're producing.  I'm for that.

9:31PM: Clinton says the Democratic party worked since Harry Truman to get the Affordable Care Act passed.  I'm not sure that's exactly what Harry had in mind, but OK.  The question was does Bernie want to destroy Obamacare.  Hillary didn't answer that question, which Bernie quickly pointed out.

9:33PM: Bernie, as we all know, is for universal health care.  He wants to provide health care for everyone and get rid of private insurance.  This is a simple question.  Do you want a candidate who's for universal public health care or do you want a candidate who's for subsidizing private health care?  It's a simple question.  I don't know what Hillary is arguing about.  Bernie's a socialist.  He wants universal health care.  It's the one thing everyone knows about him.

9:36PM: Hillary's argument seems to be that Bernie's goal of universal health care would force us to start from scratch and give up the gains made by the Affordable Care Act.  That's a fair point.  Hillary is basically saying we'll never have the votes for universal health care.

9:39PM: Bernie says we need to have guts and he brought up the influence of money on politics.  This is pragmatism vs. idealism and it's a pretty fun debate but neither of them appear to be having any fun.  Maybe (seriously) this is why Trump is doing so well.  He seems to be having a blast.  Yeah, he's angry, but he's happy to be angry.  These two look like they're getting side by side colonoscopies.  Also, I think Martin O'Malley is still here but I can't really be sure.

9:43PM: Oh, there's Marty, unsuccessfully trying to break the Sanders filibuster.  When he finally got to talk, he quoted Frederick Douglass and everyone clapped but still nobody voted for him.

9;45PM: Some fucking douchebag from YouTube just asked how these people are going to engage his generation.  Hillary talked about how young people value their independence and autonomy.  Wrong.  I work with college students.  They're the least independent and autonomous people you could ever meet.  Who's next?  Oh, apparently nobody, only Hillary gets to answer that question.  Awesome job NBC.

9:52PM: Bernie says "I don't get personal speaking fees from Goldman Sachs".  Ouch.  We all understand Bernie would be roughly a trillion times tougher on Wall St. than Hillary, right?  If you want Wall St. to be better regulated, you're voting for Bernie.  We really shouldn't have to spend a lot of time of this.

9:54PM: Hillary just called Dodd-Frank a "regulatory scheme".  I have a feeling you'll be hearing that sound bite in a Ted Cruz commercial this fall.  Where is Elizabeth Warren right now?  Why won't she run?  Is she busy?  Can't somebody else do whatever it is she's doing right now?

9:56PM: O'Malley is making snide remarks every time Hillary pauses.  It's pretty funny.

9:57PM: Marty says he's for a modern version of Glass-Steagall and Hillary isn't.  That appears to be true.  Hillary responded by saying O'Malley took Wall St. money in the past.  Yes, yes, everyone's a whore.

9:59PM: In case you didn't know who Bernie was talking about when he brought up Goldman Sachs speaking fees a few minutes ago, he was talking about Hillary Clinton.

10:01PM: How will Bernie pay for all his fun socialism?  Taxes on Wall St. speculation.  I think Bernie believes he has adequately explained himself now, but I don't think most people understand Bernie's plan anymore than they did two minutes ago.

10:04PM: Solid explanation of something from Bernie.  Yes, he would raise middle class taxes to pay for medicare for all, but those same people wouldn't have to pay $10,000 in private health insurance premiums anymore.  My employer does pay a nice sum for my health insurance, but if Bernie got rid of those premiums, I don't feel super confident that my employer would gladly just hand that money over to me.

10:07PM: Another YouTube question.  This one had cartoons.  Journalism!

10:09PM: Bernie wants to move our energy system away from fossil fuels.

10:10PM: Marty invited the other two to join him in pledging to have a 100% clean energy electrical grid by 2050.  Lester decided to go to a commercial instead of letting them answer.

10:13PM: Chuck Todd is now talking to the camera for some reason.  Since when do debates have halftime?

10:16PM: Andrea asked Bernie if it's now time to re-open a US embassy in Tehran.  Personally, I would love to see Argo 2.

10:19PM: Hillary's three point plan for Syria doesn't include ground forces.  Marty has a three point plan for lunch tomorrow, but honestly, two of the points are just two different kinds of cheese and I'm not sure that really counts.

10:20PM: Bernie showed some restraint by not actually staring directly at Hillary while talking about the mistakes of Iraq.

10:21PM: Marty says Governors have led us to victory in two world wars.  George W. Bush was a Governor too.  There may be a hole in Marty's argument.

10:23PM: Bernie, once again, pointed out that he strongly opposed the Iraq war.  He added "UNLIKE SOME OTHER HILLARY CLINTONS WHO WILL REMAIN NAMELESS".  OK he didn't, but maybe he should have.

10:27PM: We all agree Assad is bad.  Bernie seems to be advocating for a one problem at a time approach, saying we should work with anyone who wants to destroy ISIS because that has to come first.  I feel like that's one of those things you say before you become President and realize the actual scope of the mess over there.

10:29PM: Hillary just said something about advancing your security and your values.  No, no to the second thing.  We tried that.  Not everyone wants our values.  Values are things that you value.  You can't tell other countries what they're supposed to value and you certainly can't bomb them into sharing your values.  We've learned nothing.

10:31PM: Marty says the government should have to get a warrant no matter what door they want to come through.  Some people in the audience applauded very loudly and I'm pretty sure Rand Paul was one of them.

10:33PM: Bernie says private companies and the government know where you are at this very moment.  Hi private companies!  Would you like to send me some money or something?

10:38PM: Even though all night nobody else ever got to follow up on the last question after a break, Hillary gets 30 seconds to make a point about what they were talking about before the break.  O'Malley asked if he could also have 30 seconds.  The moderators seemed very reluctant but Marty got his 30 seconds in and used it to say bad things about Trump.

10:41PM: Would Bill Clinton have a real policy role in Hillary's White House, or just a kitchen table role?  She says he'd advise her on the economy.  Weird question, OK answer.

10:43PM: Goldman Sachs will not have a Treasury Secretary in Bernie's cabinet.  Well that should fix it.

10:44PM: Bernie says Bill Clinton's actions (I assume we're talking about the intern banging) were deplorable but that's not what he's here to talk about.  That whole section was about Bill Clinton.  That was weird.

10:49PM: Lester asked them if there's anything they wanted to say tonight that they didn't get a chance to say.  He started with O'Malley and everyone laughed.  Poor Marty.  He took his 60 seconds to talk about immigration, Puerto Rico, Honduras and El Salvador.  Maybe Marty is struggling because he's not great at staying on message.

10:51PM: Hillary took her time to talk about Flint, Michigan.  She just kicked the shit out of the Governor of Michigan, and rightfully so.  Bernie said he also called for the Governor's resignation.

10:53PM: Bernie also took his time to talk about money in politics.

I guess that's it.  I could name like 10 Democrats I like more than any of these three.  Booker/Warren 2016!

Political Nonsense

I think I need to clarify my concerns about Bernie Sanders a little before we start the first Democratic debate.  I don't actually care what Bernie thinks about guns.  As far as I can tell, there's no gun control law weak enough that Congress would even think about considering passing it, so what the next President thinks about guns would seem to be inconsequential.  We're stuck with guns.  Yay America!

My concern is that Bernie's position on guns is so off-brand for him.  Bernie isn't a talking points machine like Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush, and that's part of his appeal.  He says real stuff.  You might not agree with all of it, but when Chuck Todd asks someone if they're a capitalist and they say no, it's a pretty good bet they're telling the truth and saying something they mean, because why would anyone running for President lie about that.  So, when Bernie talks about guns and I hear the same rambling political nonsense that I hear from everyone else, it feels really suspicious to me.  Why is he such a generic politician on this one issue?  Just because people like to hunt in Vermont?  I don't buy it.

I had a similar experience listening to Donald Trump a couple of weeks ago.  Trump, like Bernie, draws a lot of his appeal from not sounding like a generic politician.  But when Trump announced his economic plan, it was basically the same economic plan Republicans have been shopping for 35 years.  The magic power of tax cuts, paid for by eliminating loopholes. 

Politicians talk about loopholes as though they're some naturally occurring phenomenon.  As if we got to Washington D.C. in the 18th century and we were like "Hey, this looks like a great capitol, but these wild tax code loopholes are growing everywhere.  We can't get rid of them, so we'll just have to incorporate them into our government."  Tax code loopholes have been very intentionally created and the people who created them aren't just going to give them up because we ask nicely.

I expect to hear plenty of political nonsense tonight.  Hillary Clinton has a microphone and she is a category 5 hurricane of talking points.  I'll be interested to see what Bernie does and, as far as the rest of them go, maybe Lincoln Chafee will talk about the metric system again.  Let's get started.

8:31PM - In case you missed it, CNN saved a podium for Joe Biden in case he decided to show up at the last minute.  It's like the Democratic version of Passover.

8:32PM - Tonight's debate is being moderated by Anderson Cooper.  I have no feelings about that.  I don't like it, I don't not like it.  Anderson Cooper.

8:35PM - I tuned in at 8:30 because CNN said the debate started at 8:30.  Now it's 8:35 and I'm watching a commercial about South Africa.  CNN can't even show up on time for its own debate.

8:36PM - CNN just ran a graphic suggesting that this debate will be in keeping with great debate traditions like Lincoln/Douglas.  Settle down CNN.

8:40PM - They're seriously having someone sing the national anthem before the debate.  I need to know if the candidates had the opportunity to veto this idea because if they did, I'm already not voting for any of them.

8:41PM - Also, the person they got to sing the anthem was Sheryl Crow.  That's neither a joke nor a typo.  I have so many questions.  Where did they find Sheryl Crow?  Did they ask other people first?  Doesn't starting the debate with someone from 1994 prove that CNN is in the bag for Hillary?

8:46PM - Cooper started by asking each candidate to do their best Obama impression.  They were all incredibly racist.

8:47PM - Maybe it's just my TV, but Don Lemon appears to be wearing a beach towel cut into the shape of a suit.

8:48PM - Lincoln Chafee's resting facial expression is "goofy smile".  He looks like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.  I don't like his chances, is what I'm saying.

8:50PM - Hey, Jim Webb is here.  Jim was a marine in Vietnam.  I swear if this wasn't Jim's first public appearance since he announced his candidacy he'd be doing great.

8:52PM - Martin O'Malley started by touting his 15 years of executive experience.  OK but that was in Maryland, where the only real city was still on fire last time I heard.  The most brutally realistic drug/crime drama I've ever seen was set in Baltimore and everyone watched it and was like "yeah, seems about right."  I'm not sure this resume bullet is as impressive as Martin thinks it is.

8:54PM - After a few Republican debates it was jarring to hear someone say "thanks to President Obama" non-sarcastically.

8:56PM - Bernie Sanders is pro habitable planet.  It's sad that there's a whole political party that isn't.

8:56PM - When Bernie says he wants to take back our government, he actually tells you who has it.  That's a helpful tip.

8:58PM - Somebody told Hillary Clinton that people don't like it when she sounds angry.  She's going for the Lincoln Chafee permanent goofy smile, but she can't pull it off.

9:01PM - Coop asked Hillary if she'll say anything to get elected.  She gave a long answer, but the short answer is yes.

9:03PM - Bernie says he's going to win because he'll explain to people what a Democratic Socialist is.  I'm not sure Bernie understands how elections work.  Cable news won't stand for just calmly explaining where you stand on issues Bernie.

9:05PM - Coop pushed Bernie on whether or not he considers himself a capitalist.  Bernie said he's not part of the casino capitalism we have now.  I'm disappointed to hear Bernie hedging a little.

9:07PM - Cooper to Chafee "You've been everything but a socialist".  Chafee started saying he's been a block of granite on the issues.  Cooper interrupted saying "it seems like pretty soft granite".  Will Coop be heckling the candidates all night?

9:08PM - Coop made essentially the same point about Baltimore that I just did, without the Wire reference.

9:10PM - O'Malley's defense of his Baltimore record was genuinely interesting.  It made me want to learn more about Martin O'Malley and also crab cakes.

9:11PM - Webb says he's always supported affirmative action for African-Americans because of their unique history, but then he seemed to also be making the argument for affirmative action for white people from the Appalachians if they're poor.  Those two arguments don't really seem to go together.  I don't think white people in Appalachia were ever held as slaves.  To be fair, I'm not up on my Appalachian history.

9:14PM - Sanders just referred to himself in the third person while trying to somehow explain his position on guns.  I heard nothing to assuage my concerns.

9:15PM - Clinton hammered Bernie on guns.  His response was essentially "I'm from a rural state, so you don't understand things about guns New York lady".  Still not buying it.

9:16PM - O'Malley just said he passed gun legislation "not by looking at pollings or looking at what the polls say".  Sounds like Marty skipped debate prep.  Also, Marty has a habit of pointing out people in the audience and telling stories about everyday Americans.  You know how much I hate that.  Having said all that, Marty was really strong with his guns answer.

9:18PM - Bernie made another argument about rural Americans.  Marty went back at Bernie saying "it's not about rural".  I'm officially putting Marty in the maybe column.

9:20PM - Webb says average Americans deserve the right to protect their families...by getting into shoot-outs with criminals one assumes.

9:22PM - Chafee says we need to bring the gun lobby in to find common ground.  Good luck with that Shaggy.

9:23PM - Seriously, it's so weird hearing people say good things about President Obama in a debate.

9:23PM - Bernie just referred to Syria as a quagmire in a quagmire.  That pretty much sums it up.

9:24PM - Bernie says Iraq was the worst foreign policy move in the history of this country (I may be paraphrasing, but I also may not be).  He added..."some people voted for Iraq...cough cough...Hillary...cough cough".

9:24PM - Shaggy is also hammering Hillary on the Iraq vote.  To be fair, Lincoln was a Republican in 2003 so it was a crazy time for everyone.

9:26PM - Clinton..."President Obama made me his Secretary of State after he beat me in a primary because of my Iraq vote...are any of you looking for a Secretary of State?"

9:27PM - Bernie says a no fly zone in Syria is a dangerous idea.  He's probably right about that, but really, everything we do or don't do about Syria at this point is a pretty dangerous idea.  It's like waking up in the morning and finding that someone has filled your apartment with poisonous snakes.  There's really no good move at that point.

9:29PM - I'm no Hillary fan, but man, all of these guys were so right about Iraq in 2003.  Too bad none of them were able to do anything about it.  These guys need to take it down a notch or two.  There are five people on the stage, none of them were able to come anywhere close to stopping us from going into Iraq.

9:32PM - Webb is openly arguing with Cooper about the debate rules.  He also says that the biggest foreign policy focus in his administration would be China, and they don't own the South China Sea.  Sadly, I don't own the South China Sea either.  Webb sounds a little Trumpy to me sometimes.

9:33PM - I'm pretty sure Coop just caught Bernie not paying attention to the foreign policy discussion.  Focus up, Bernie!  People who don't like Hillary are counting on you!

9:36PM - Webb's a marine and I'm concerned that Coop might disappear during the first break.

9:37PM - Webb says you can't get to the Tripoli airport today.  Jim has a habit of wandering off the point, maybe this is why he doesn't do a lot of TV.

9:38PM - This whole thing about Sanders being a conscientious objector during Vietnam seems like a stupid question.  Wouldn't a President who isn't inclined to go running into war be a good thing?

9:40PM - Can we have a mid-debate elimination of Lincoln?  He's just getting in the way at this point.

9:41PM - Bernie says our greatest national security concern is climate change.  I'm not saying he's wrong, but I am saying that I'm becoming increasingly concerned that Bernie would get slaugthered in a general election. 

9:49PM - Bernie backs Hillary up on the email issue, saying that the American people are tired of hearing about Hillary's emails.  This whole exchange ended with Hillary thanking Bernie and doing her whole maniacal laugh thing.  For the record, I still think it's a real issue.

9:50PM - Shaggy thinks it's a real issue too.  Cooper asked Hillary if she wanted to respond to Shaggy, she said no.  We've all dismissed Lincoln at this point.

9:51PM - Coop wanted to talk about issues of race, so he went to Don Lemon for the first time.  CNN!

9:52PM - Do black lives matter or do all lives matter?  I saw Eric Bolling suggest that question on The Five today.  Good job CNN.  We all hate you.

9:53PM - Marty says if we were burying poor white kids in the same numbers that we're burying poor black kids, we'd have a very different response in this country.  Obvious point, but still true.  Marty is really growing on me.  I wish news people would have stopped talking about Trump for five minutes and introduced me to Marty before now.

9:54PM - Webb can't stop himself from complaining about the amount of time he's getting.

9:56PM - Bernie says we need to create millions of jobs by rebuilding infrastructure, raising the minimum wage to $15, creating pay equity for women and making college free.  I don't object to any of those things.

9:57PM - Hillary wants every American to have the opportunities her and Bill did.  That's sounds a little unrealistic.

9:58PM - Put Marty down for reinstating Glass-Steagall.  Put Hillary down for not doing that.  She says she's for letting regulators break up big banks if we think they pose a risk.  I think they pose a risk.  Is that good enough?

10:01PM - Hillary says she told Wall Street to "cut it out" in 2007.  How'd that go?

10:03PM - Marty is hammering Hillary on not supporting Glass-Steagall.

10:04PM - Hillary..."I didn't take a position on Keystone until I took a position on Keystone".  Yikes.  Then she said her and Barack Obama crashed a meeting with the Chinese in 2009.  That sounds like the worst Hangover movie ever.

10:06PM - These people love telling stories about things they said that nobody listened to.

10:07PM - Cooper to Webb..."you agreed to these rules and you're wasting time".  I'd like to watch a sitcom in which Cooper and Webb have to live together in a studio apartment.

10:07PM - Chafee's answer to why he voted to get rid of Glass-Steagall was that he had just arrived in the Senate and his dad had just died.  It's like he's trying to lose.

10:09PM - While Lincoln was talking I was just thinking about how often I'll imagine a Martin O'Malley/John Kasich election while I'm listening to Hillary Clinton and Marco Rubio argue about nonsense next Fall.

10:10PM - Dana Bash asked Bernie if he'd want free college for wealthy kids.  That feels like a stupid and unnecessarily divisive question, and Bernie answered it just fine.

10:11PM - Clinton..."I fully support social security", she added "I mean, that's what those pollsters over there told me I think".

10:12PM - Bernie supports social security too, but he's a socialist so that's not really a surprise.

10:13PM - CNN brought in an Hispanic guy to ask about immigration reform.  Seriously CNN, we all hate you.

10:15PM - Does Hillary Clinton want to open up Obamacare to undocumented immigrants and their children?  She talked for a minute and I'm not really sure.  I guess "sort of" was her answer.  That seems to be her position on a lot of things.

10:16PM - Same question to Jim Webb.  His answer after a pretty long pause..."I wouldn't have a problem with that".  I'm going to put Jim down for a "no, but I still think I can win so I don't really want to say that right now".

10:20PM - Talking about the Patriot Act now.  Lincoln's excuse for voting for bad bills seems to be "lots of other people did it too so leave me alone".

10:23PM - O'Malley on Edward Snowden..."whistle blowers don't run to Russia and seek protection from Putin".  That's basically what Hillary was saying, but she spent a minute not really saying it and Marty said it clearly in about 8 seconds.  Somebody get me every available piece of information about Martin O'Malley.

10:25PM - Chafee would change our approach to the middle east by not bombing hospitals and weddings anymore.  I think we all agree on that.  I'm fairly certain Barack Obama isn't aiming for hospitals.

10:25PM - Clinton on how she'd be different from President Obama...she has lady parts.  Coop immediately quipped "Is there a policy difference?".  One point for Coop.

10:26PM - Bernie said we need a revolution.  Webb responded by saying he has respect for Bernie, but he doesn't think a revolution is coming and he doesn't think Congress will pay for a lot of the things Bernie wants to do.  Solid points from Jim.

10:35PM - Hillary says she's not asking people to vote for her based on her last name.  True, that's really more of an implicit argument than an overt thing she's asking for.

10:36PM - Bernie pointed out his lack of a Super PAC.  Bernie pronounces Super PAC the same way your grandma pronounces Facebook.  Not exactly wrong, but not exactly right either.

10:37PM - Marty wants a 100% clean energy grid by 2050.  That seems like a long time from now.

10:38PM - Jim points out that we can't solve climate change by just fixing America.  I've made this point before.  Climate moves around.  You can't just stop burning coal in the United States and then everything's fine.

10:39PM - Bernie points out that fossil fuels are funding the Republican party.  To be fair, they're funding a good portion of the Democratic party too.

10:40PM - Hillary is telling her Hangover 4: Crashing the China Meeting story again.

10:41PM - Hillary says that paid family leave in California hasn't resulted in all the problems Republicans always say will come with paid family leave.  She followed up by pointing out that Republicans don't mind big government when it's telling women want to do about health care.  Alright, one point for Hillary.

10:44PM - Bernie "suspects" he would vote yes on recreational marijuana.  He followed with good points about the criminal justice system, but I got hung up on "suspect".  If Bernie has a suspicion about where he stands on marijuana, I know a guy he can ask to confirm it.

10:46PM - Is Hillary ready to take a position on marijuana now?  No, no she is not.

10:47PM - Bernie's plan for how to get Republicans to do stuff seems flawed.  Just get lots of people to ask them.  I feel like he's skipping a couple of steps.

10:52PM - Coop asked them all which political enemy are they most proud of making:
Shaggy - The Coal Lobby
Marty - The NRA (score another point for Marty)
Hillary - Of course she couldn't just give a straight answer
Bernie - Wall St. and the Pharmaceutical industry
Webb - An enemy soldier that threw a grenade at him

10:54PM - Marty's closing statement was killer.  I'm declaring him the clear winner, which probably means he'll drop out tomorrow.